7 September 2017
*163. Mr S P Mhlongo (EFF) to ask the Minister of Police:
Why was a certain person (name furnished) not arrested as soon as he agreed that he assaulted a woman as it is practice that a person who has allegedly committed a crime is arrested and appears in court as due legal process?
Minister Response: The purpose of an arrest, is to ensure that an accused person attends court. The specified person was not arrested on the day when the incident was reported to the police, due to an incomplete investigation at that stage, since several witness statements had not been obtained. The person was also not considered to be a flight risk. The person, however, appeared in the Randburg Magistrate Court, on 10 August 2017 and the case against him was remanded to 13 September 2017, for further investigation.
Follow Up Speaker: JJ Maake
Follow up Question: I am happy minister that you clearly explained the purpose of arresting a person. It is to avoid flight and intimidation of witnesses etc. My question is, does every case warrant an arrest? Is there any favoritism that happened in this particular case?
*158. Mr D M Gumede (ANC) to ask the Minister of Home Affairs:
Has her department managed to improve its turnaround time and processes for the issuing of identity documents, passports and birth certificates; if so, what are the relevant details?
Minister Response: Hard Copy received
Follow Up Speaker: Mr Gumede
Follow up Question: Will answer in the House
*144. Mr J J Skosana (ANC) to ask the Minister of Defence and Military Veterans:
What progress has been achieved since the establishment of the Operational Liaison Forum by the SA National Defence Force and the defence forces of Zimbabwe, Mozambique, Swaziland, Botswana, Namibia and Lesotho to address transnational security threats?
Minister Response: Zimbabwe, Mozambique and Swaziland are the only defence forces that are active in the Operational Liaison Forum (OLF) and they meet on quarterly basis. The SANDF is in the process of communicating with Lesotho Defence Force and Botswana Defence Forces to form part of the OLF.
Follow Up Speaker: JJ Skosana
Follow up Question: Did the operational Liaison Forum by the national Defence Force and the Defence Forces of Zimbabwe, Mozambique, Botswana, Namibia and Lesotho manage create cohesion, unity and forge around a common consensus in relation to promoting security, peace and stability within the SADC Region.
*128. Ms D Carter (Cope) to ask the Minister of Police:
Whether, in light of the increase in organised crime, political murders, alleged state capture and seeming disarray within the crime and intelligence gathering institutions, (a) the crime and intelligence institutions are in working order and (b) the institutions are being utilised for the lawful purposes for which they were established?
Minister Response:
(a) and (b) The Crime Intelligence Division is in working order at national, provincial and cluster levels. The members of the Division are being lawfully used in accordance with their mandate, to support the crime prevention and investigation environments of the South African Police Service (SAPS), in the fight against crime.
The intelligence analysis and gathering units are currently focusing on crime priorities identified by the Acting National Commissioner with special attention being given to the recent rise in aggravated robberies in the country and political murders in KwaZulu-Natal.
Major General Ngcobo was appointed to the position of Acting Divisional Commissioner, on 23 August 2017. He was urged by the Minister of Police, to unite Crime Intelligence personnel, as well as to create an enabling environment, for all members to focus on the Division’s mandate and priorities.
Follow Up Speaker: MP Mmola
Follow up Question: To avoid what happened previously in crime intelligence, does the current acting head of Crime Intelligence have a security clearance?
*151. Ms M C C Pilane-Majake (ANC) to ask the Minister of Justice and Correctional Services:
Whether, in light of the annual budget of R20 billion of his department which makes incarceration, care and rehabilitation of offenders unaffordable for a country that is grappling with poverty, unemployment and inequalities, there are any plans to repatriate inmates who are foreign nationals who constitute 7,5% of inmates in correctional centres in the country; if not, what is the position in this regard; if so, what are the relevant details?
Minister Response: Within the Southern African Development Community (SADC) a process has been undertaken in recent years to draft a Protocol on the Transfer of Sentenced Offenders.
No policy position as to the transfer of sentenced foreigners to serve their sentences in their countries of origin has been adopted at the level of Cabinet.
The Department of Correctional Services, in consultation with all relevant Justice, Crime Prevention and Security (JCPS) Departments, is compiling a Position Paper that will form the basis of a submission to Cabinet with regard to the adoption of a South African policy position in this regard.
The following aspects are, among others, being included in the framework of the Position Paper:
- Overview of international context;
- Overview of international agreements on prisoner transfers;
- Universal founding and guiding principles regarding prisoner transfers;
- Motivation for the transfer of prisoners; and
- Challenges relating to the transfer of prisoners.
Follow Up Speaker: Ms M C C Pilane-Majake
Follow up Question: Minister, noting that no policy position as to the transfer of sentenced foreigners to serve their sentences in their countries of origin has been adopted at the level of Cabinet are you in the position to share how much it costs the country to provide services to this 7,5% correctional services inmate population of foreign nationals.
*130. Mr M H Hoosen (DA) to ask the Minister of Home Affairs:
Whether a certain person (name furnished) holds a South African passport; if not, which passport did `the specified person use to enter the Republic of South Africa on or before 13 August 2017; if so, on what date was it issued?
Minister Response: Hard Copy
Follow Up Speaker: Whip to identify speaker
Follow up Question: Will answer in the House
*149. Mr M S Motimele (ANC) to ask the Minister of Defence and Military Veterans:
What progress has been made arising from the discussions between the National Treasury and her department with regard to the defence review and the funding model for the implementation thereof?
Minister Response:
a. With regard to discussions with the National Treasury on the funding model for the Defence review, the tow Accounting Officers have established and Inter-Departmental Task Team known as the Budget Task Team (BTT) to look at ways and means to fund the implementation of the Defence Review 2015,
b. The BTT interrogated the requirement and developed a joint report in which the following proposals were made:
- Retention of revenue of ± R1.7 bn to R3.7bn from FY18/19 – FY23/24;
- Leveraging of assets of ±R1.5 bn to be phased in from the FY21/22; and
- Efficiencies and savings to be implemented from within the department.
c. The additional requirement from the Fiscus from Year 1 of the implementation of the Defence Review is ±R386m to R11.3bn in Year 6, provided that the proposals mentioned earlier are approved for implementation.
d. The BTT report was approved by the Plenary Defence Staff Council and signed-off by the Secretary for Defence as the Accounting Officer and then submitted as a formal report to the NT for the NT DG signature and inclusion in the MTEC process.
Follow Up Speaker: DD Gamede
Follow up Question: What are the timelines for the inter-departmental task Team known as the budget task team (BTT) in implementing the Defence Review of 2015?
8.*154. Mr M S A Masango (ANC) to ask the Minister of International Relations and Cooperation:
What is the substantive outcome of the Southern African Development Community Summit of the Heads of State and Government held in the country between 18 August 2017 to 20 August 2017?
Minister Response: Hard Copy reply received
Follow Up Speaker: Mr M S A Masango
Follow up Question: As the ANC, we are exhiliarted about the decision to convene a SADC solidarity conference on the Wetern Sahara to give expression to their quest for self determination.
Will the SADC states, in collaboratiob with the AU consider raising this issue/matter wuth the UN Security Council, so that they can impose punitive economic sanctions to the Moroccan government and its backers?
9.*140. Mr W Horn (DA) to ask the Minister of Justice and Correctional Services:
Whether the Office of the Chief State Law Adviser advised the Minister of International Relations and Cooperation, Ms M E Nkoana-Mashabane, before she decided to grant a certain person (name furnished) diplomatic immunity on 20 August 2017; if not, why not; if so, what are the full details of the advice?
Minister Response: The Office of the Chief State Law Adviser did not advise the Minister of International Relations and Cooperation, Ms M. Nkoana-Mashabane, before she decided to grant a certain person (name furnished) diplomatic immunity, on 20 August 2017.
Follow Up Speaker: M Mothapo
Follow up Question: In light of the fact that the granting of diplomatic immunity falls in the terrain of the Department of International Relations and Co-operations, is the Minister of Justice and Correctional Services in any way involved in the granting of such immunity? If so, how so?
10.*155. Ms M A Molebatsi (ANC) to ask the Minister of Police:
Since his undertaking on 18 April 2017, what progress has been made regarding the filling of all acting positions in the top management of the SA Police Service with permanent incumbents including the Crime Intelligence?
Minister Response: The current posts in the top management of the South African Police Service (SAPS), wherein acting incumbents are appointed, including the post of Divisional Commissioner: Crime Intelligence, are temporarily vacant pending outcome of litigation or disciplinary process. With the exception of the post of National Commissioner: SAPS, the incumbents of such posts are subjected to the disciplinary process of the SAPS or engaged in litigation against the SAPS. The filling of any of these posts with new incumbents will place the SAPS at risk, should it be challenged by the current incumbents, and any decision to fill such posts by another incumbent can only be taken once the outcome of the relevant disciplinary or litigation processes are available.
Follow Up Speaker: Ms M A Molebatsi
Follow up Question: The continued instability at the top management level of the SAPS, has a devastating effect on the level of service delivery and the moral of the police members.
Can you Hounourable Minister indicate whether you will consider commissioning a research study to assess the impact of leadership instability on the South African Police Services.
*145. Adv B T Bongo (ANC) to ask the Minister of Defence and Military Veterans:
Whether, in view of the fact that the budget remains a political instrument in the hands of the State to translate policy into dedicated programmes toward optimal gain for the economy and the State, she intends to encourage all departments in the peace and security cluster to conduct a series of budget analysis to highlight serious shortcomings that would materially affect the capabilities of the State and undermine the implementation of the Government’s policy on security? NO2842E
Minister Response:
Follow Up Speaker: BT Bongo
Follow up Question: Will liase with the minister in the House
*138. Mr Z N Mbhele (DA) to ask the Minister of Police:
Has he found that the communication channels between him and the Acting National Police Commissioner, Lieutenant General Lesetja Mothiba, are effective; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details?
Minister Response: Communication Channels are normal
Follow Up Speaker: L Mabija
Follow up Question: May you please expatiate on this normal communication so that South African citizens get the gist of your answer?
*164. Ms H O Hlophe (EFF) to ask the Minister of Home Affairs:
With reference to her reply to question 1869 on 13 July 2017, what were the exceptional business circumstances that compelled her department to grant a certain family (name furnished) citizenship?
Minister Response: Hard copy
Follow Up Speaker: Whip to identify speaker
Follow up Question: Will answer in the House
*160. Ms T E Kenye (ANC) to ask the Minister of Home Affairs:
Has the creation of a national identity database been able to assist the Government to achieve the goals of a comprehensive, accurate and secure population register that gives an accurate picture of our national profile?
Minister Response: Hard copy
Follow Up Speaker: Ms T E Kenye
Follow up Question: Will answer in the House
*150. Adv B T Bongo (ANC) to ask the Minister of Justice and Correctional Services:
- Whether, in light of the number of cases in courts challenging decisions of the Executive and Parliament and that there is now in the public discourse the perception that the Judiciary is overstepping its mandate to the extent that it starts looking like the Judiciary is running the country with court orders, he has found that the Government is in a position to dispel this so-called encroachment myth;
- what steps will he take to remedy this situation in pursuit of the advancement of constitutional democracy?
Minister Response: (1) One of the fundamental pillars of our constitutional democracy is the doctrine of separation of powers between the three independent but interdependent Branches of State namely the Executive, the Legislature and the Judiciary. This separation is not clearly defined in our Constitution but must be approached and interpreted as to promote the spirit, purport and objects of the Constitution underpinned by the Rule of Law and the independence of the Judiciary.
The Constitution provides checks and balances to guard against an encroachment of one arm of the State into the functional terrain of another.
Our constitutional democracy makes it explicit, through the judicial power of review, for the courts to declare legislation enacted the democratic Parliament or policy or conduct by the Executive invalid if they are found to be unconstitutional. There is no corresponding responsibility on the Legislature or the Executive to correct what appears to be judicial overreach. As part of checks and balances inherent in the constitutional settings similar to us, is a constitutional obligation placed on the judiciary to exercise judicial restraint and not overstep their authority through what is normally termed judicial activism.
(2) Instances of judicial overreach, either perceived or real, have arisen in a number of court decisions and these have necessitated a need to develop a mechanism on how to deal with such incidents whenever they arise. The historic meeting between the delegations of the National Executive and the Judiciary led by the Honourable Deputy President Ramaphosa and the Honourable Chief Justice Mogoeng Mogoeng of 27 August 2015, has agreed, as part of the resolutions of the meeting, to have regular dialogues as part of harnessing the relationship amongst the Branches as part of our constitutional dialogues.
I can mention that we are processing, through Cabinet in this current cycle of its meetings, the Report of the Assessment of the decisions of the Constitutional Court and the Supreme Court of Appeal on the transformation of society. The Report forms the basis of the much anticipated discourse between the Executive and the Judicial Branches of State focusing particularly on the report on the assessment I have just alluded to. I will keep this Honourable House abreast on further developments in this regard.
Follow Up Speaker: M Pilane-Majake
Follow up Question: Minister, since there is no clear definition of separation of powers in the three arms of State in our Constitution, can you please tell us how the Executive and the Judiciary will go about in remedying the situation?
*127. Mr S N Swart (ACDP) to ask the Minister of Justice and Correctional Services:
Whether his department keeps accurate data on the rate of recidivism among prisoners; if so, (a) what is the rate for the period for which data is available and (b) is the rate of recidivism increasing or decreasing according to available data?
Minister Response: The data on offenders is currently captured for administrative purposes and not specifically to measure recidivism. This was due to the fact that there was no framework to measure repeat offending in the country.
The JCPS Development Committee (DevComm) established a Task Team on Repeat Offending in 2010 whose task was to develop a framework to measure repeat offending, which was approved in 2013. The overall aim of the framework was to define repeat offending, propose a measurement tool and define the roles of the different Cluster Departments in reducing repeat offending in South Africa. The Framework was approved.
After the approval of the Framework to Measure Repeat Offending the Department of Correctional Services initiated two research studies on repeat offending:
- First, a baseline study on repeat offending (2014-2015). The study was based on re-convictions as captured by the Criminal Record Centre (CRC) over a ten year period covering April 2002 to March 2012.
The key findings of the baseline study on repeat offending revealed that there was limited scope of data for analysis, a limited number of variables to measure re-convictions and inconsistent capturing of data.
- Second, a case study on repeat offending at three large Correctional Centres namely Johannesburg Medium B, Polsmor Medium B and Durban Medium B (2015-2016). The case study was based on re-incarceration records.
The key findings of the case study revealed limitations in that the date of subsequent admission of offenders was not provided. Therefore, it was difficult to measure re-incarceration.
Based on the above findings, the Department is not in a position to qualify whether recidivism is increasing or decreasing. However, in order to accurately measure repeat offending, the Department is in the process of implementing the following:
- a biometric tool that will track the offender through the system;
- a unique identification system for offenders; and
- a plan for the improvement of data quality within the Department.
Follow Up Speaker: Mr MSA Maila
Follow up Question: Can the Minister please tell us how far the Department is in implementing the plan for the improvement of data quality in the Department so as to track recidivism?
*153. Mr M S A Maila (ANC) to ask the Minister of International Relations and Cooperation:
With reference to the first trench of loans that have already been channelled by the New Development Bank (NDB) to deserving projects within the BRICS countries and the opening of the banks regional centre in Johannesburg on 17 August 2017 (a) which areas of development will the Regional Centre of the NDB focus on and (b) how does South Africa benefit from hosting the Regional Centre of the NDB? NO2851E
Minister Response: Hard copy received
Follow Up Speaker: Mr M S A Maila
Follow up Question: Since the African Regional Centre is based in Johannesburg and SA is the only BRICS member state in the continent, how do other African states stand to benefit from the African Regional Centre?
*139. Adv G Breytenbach (DA) to ask the Minister of Justice and Correctional Services:
Whether he has had any discussions with the National Director of Public Prosecutions regarding the leaked emails implicating members of a certain family (name furnished) as allegedly being involved in multiple cases of corruption; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details?
Minister Response: The National Director of Public Prosecutions (NDPP) has informed me that the Directorate of Priority Crime Investigation Unit (DPCI) of the South African Police Service (SAPS) is currently seized with investigations into various allegations related to the matters reported on in the Public Protector’s State of Capture report.
I have further been advised that the leaked emails referred to by the Honourable Member traverse allegations that are also the subject of an investigation by the DPCI.
It must be noted, that section 205 of the Constitution provides that the objects of the police service are to prevent, combat and investigate crime, to maintain public order, to protect and secure the inhabitants of the Republic and their property, and to uphold and enforce the law.
The preamble to the South African Police Service Act, 68 of 1995 (SAPS Act) emphasises the need to provide for a directorate in the SAPS that is dedicated to the prevention, investigation and combating of national priority offences, which inter alia includes serious commercial crime and serious corruption. This is with specific reference to the DPCI, which hence is constitutionally and legally mandated to investigate this matter.
The NDPP has further advised me that section 17F of the SAPS Act obligates him to ensure that a dedicated component of prosecutors is made available to assist and cooperate with members of the DPCI in conducting its investigations. To give effect hereto, the NDPP earlier this year appointed a team of prosecutors and asset forfeiture specialists to provide guidance to the DPCI into all the State of Capture allegations.
Follow Up Speaker: Adv L Mpulwana
Follow up Question: Member to deal with question in the House
*146. Mr D D Gamede (ANC) to ask the Minister of Defence and Military Veterans:
What contribution has the SA National Defence Force made to the United Nations deployment in the eastern Democratic Republic of Congo and (b) what challenges are our forces facing in that region?
NO2843E
Minister Response:
(a) The SANDF has deployed a battalion as part of the Force Intervention Brigade of the MONUSC. The FIB also includes Tanzanian and Malawian. In addition to the deployment the SANDF has also provided the following support:
- A composite helicopter unit from the South African Air Force with five helicopters (Oryx) and three Combat Support Helicopters (Rooivalk).
- Engineer Squadron to provide engineer support to the UN.
- South African Medical Health Services has deployed level 1 hospitals and two Aero Medical Evacuation Teams.
- South African National Defence Force Specialist Contingent composed of different specialist elements such a cargo handling, fire and rescue, and UN military police.
Follow Up Speaker: Mr D D Gamede (ANC)
Follow up Question: Was the South African Defence force able to reduce the threat posed by armed groups to the state authority, civilian security in the Eastern Congo and to make space for stabilisation?